Parents and Psychologists: Is this sort of grounding okay?
My 11 year old daughter has been lying for over a year, doing things like:
letting her homework pile up for three months (she's done this three times, but the second time she was caught after a month, and the third time she was caught after two weeks)
sneaking little things like gum and snacks from others' rooms and my purse, and then not fessing up that it was her - even when she's chewing the very food/gum in her mouth at the time of being accused
buying lunch at school on credit instead of making her lunch like she was supposed to (she was "busy" that morning, so she couldn't do it...she only did this once, btw)
Sneaking time on the internet and/or tv when she's not supposed to (I've password protected the computers, but there's nothing I can do about the tv and it's too big to move)
destroying/vandalizing others' property - instead of informing me so I can make the effort to try to talk to those who she feels have insulted her or us as a family (she's scratched designs into a dining room table, taken a patch of paint off someone else's wall, thrown mud on someone's garage, and wrote bad words in chalk in front of another neighbor's house)
repeatedly not wearing her glasses while reading at home - especially while in her room at dusk (she's supposed to wear them all the time, but she doesn't even wear them when she reads)
I've totally had it! I've talked, cried, yelled, lectured, given time outs (11 minutes in her room, away from me) given the silent treatment, and taken away privileges. No change in behavior. Nothing. I'm at a total loss....but I have ordered a few new parenting books, which should be here in a few days.
Anyway, this is the grounding I want to dole out:
Confined for two weeks with no tv, computer, toys, radio or books (why help her weaken her eyesight further since she's not willing to wear her glasses unattended). Oh yeah, and no new Harry Potter movie until it's out on DVD.
No leaving her room unless she needs to go to the bathroom, get drinks of water, take a shower, and do chores (emptying the trash every two or three days, re-shelving clean dishes, doing her laundry). Her three balanced meals and two healthy snacks a day will be eaten in her room.
Is the type of grounding I have in mind child abuse? Of course, I don't want to do it if it is.
Thanks!
Thanks for the responses so far! I'm gaining a lot of insight from the longer ones with feedback!
An addendum to the homework situation:
Regular communication was used between her teacher and I via a homework journal (and even email); her teacher would sign off on her homework the day it was assigned, and I signed off on it the evening I saw that they were completed.
What ended up happening was that my daughter would get the daily homework signed, and then scratch them offer her list (so I couldn't read what she was supposed to do) and then she'd write "done at school" near her teacher's signature before meeting me after school - just yards away from her classroom's door. Nice, eh?
Again, thanks for all the feedback. I'm learning loads. Keep it coming!!!
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Putting her in a room with nothing to do and only letting her out for the things you mentioned could be considered psychological abuse. Certainly similar treatment has caused problems in our military. And isolating her during meal times from the rest of the family just further stigmatizes her as a bad child and may cause psychological problems or make any she already has even worse, and it will breed resentment and rebellion! That being said, there are lots of things you can do to control her behavior (just don’t put her in her room like that under those conditions).
I would start by telling her that since she can’t tell the truth, you will assume that anything that comes out of her mouth is a lie and you will act as if it is. Then I would hire an adult babysitter for her and never ever leave her unattended. This babysitter would walk her to and from school (she will find that humiliating) AND collect the homework from the teachers (you would need to arrange this from the school). If the teachers ask about the babysitter, tell them that you are having trust issues with your daughter and this is what you need to do to protect her from her own actions (vandalizing, lying, etc.). And then give her a permanent 8 pm bedtime. Tell her that since she has behaved like a toddler, she goes to bed when a toddler does too.
And then you take away all her privileges (no telephone, no cell phone, no computer (she can write her homework by hand), no internet (instant messaging, emails, etc.), no television, no radio, no dvd/vcr player, no ipod, no nothing other than a Bible and school work). Oh and if she has any jewelry, including earrings in her ears, take them away from her (no jewelry, not even a watch). And then you strip her room bare and take off the door. Leave her with a mattress on the floor, a pair of sheets, two towels, two face cloths, and a change of clothing, plus pajamas. Lock everything else up of her’s or give it away (remember that she has no property rights as a minor). And if she gets any mail, you read it first and decide if her behavior justifies receiving it (ditto for all parcels and gifts). Don’t forget to take the lightbulb out of her room. And when you go to bed at night, take the telephone and the power cords to the computer and television(s) to bed with you.
And her grounding lasts a full year, not two weeks. She gets no privileges and she can’t leave to go to friends or have friends in. And she doesn’t get one single solitary privilege (including celebrating her birthday or Christmas (other than Christmas dinner)) until she stops lying, changes her attitude, stops destroying other people’s property, etc. Personally, I do think that she could benefit from some counseling. Make this mandatory. Your daughter has to learn that she is entitled to nothing other than a roof over her head (shelter), clothes on her back, food (nothing says it must be either hot or tasty), and basic education and health care. Anything above and beyond that is a privilege that she is not entitled to but must earn. And if she does not earn her privileges, she will have none. The choice is her’s. And don’t bend. And whatever else you do, don’t forget that babysitter.
Take care.
It sounds pretty good to me. Keep an eye on her door, though.
Sounds like a good plan to me. I would have done it long ago.
That’s fine, definitely not child abuse.
Sounds okay. I would have done it months ago.
Sounds good!
Good for you for finally putting your foot down!
It’s fine, other than two weeks is not long enough for such a long history of lying thru her teeth and being so self-indulgent an irresponsible. 11 years old and already doing things like this, that would put her in jail as an adult??? Time to crack down HARD.
Is no one there to supervise her??? What do you mean you can’t do anything about the tv?? Get some help and move it or kill the cable.
BTW, "time outs", silent treatment….completely ineffective, as you’ve found out. Especially ignoring her…..think about it, that’s what she wants, and it’s saying, unless you are perfect I won’t speak to you. It does NOTHING to explain to her why her behavior is unacceptable. It’s something a little kid would do who hasn’t gotten their way. It’s teaching her to be immature.
And good lord, NO NO NO the grounding is not child abuse. What she actually DESERVES would be considered abuse by today’s limp-wristed society, so what you propose is as good as it gets. Just make it a month or longer, and the next infraction of the rules or stupid behavior gets another 2 weeks.
your a psycho that is definatly child abuse. she’s being a kid let her be, although shes gonna turn out pregnant by 15. just saying grandmom
Well, she is not supposed to be eating in her room. You’re giving her mixed messages. That is a bit damaging, I think , Isolating her. This punishment will result in harboring resentment.
The only thing that will straighten this girl out is a good dose of hairbrush applied liberally to bare bottom.
"I’ve totally had it! I’ve talked, cried, yelled, lectured, given time outs (11 minutes in her room, away from me) given the silent treatment, and taken away privileges. No change in behavior. Nothing. I’m at a total loss…."
The one thing you haven’t tried is _listening_ and _honestly asking_. Really, I don’t see how trying to put yourself as her jail keeper is going to make her trust you enough to tell you the truth, respect you enough to share her thoughts with you, and love you enough to do those few things she needs just because you want her to.
Read http://onlinepsychologyadvice.com/?p=47#more-47 to get a better idea about lying and blaming, and http://onlinepsychologyadvice.com/?p=81 to get a better idea about how you can actually listen rather than talk.
Definitely not child abuse. Don’t forget to take away her phone, too. Also, you might want to invest on an alarm to put on her windows and bedroom door. Maybe even look into one that transmits to your cell phone, so if you’re out of the house, you know she’s sneaking out. (Don’t know if they have one like this, but they should, lol)
Good luck. And make 2 weeks even longer if she continues to misbehave. If she’s not straightened out by then, then she has some serious will power. I know 2 weeks in my room with absolutely nothing would have me freaking!
I can’t help but wonder why. Why is she doing all of this? What payout is she receiving from this kind of behavior? Have you tried talking to her? Is there something going on with her that you are unaware of?
The homework can be handled by a daily note signed by each teacher, stating whether or not she has homework. Been there and done that.
As for the rest of that, some of that is some very serious business, I’d have spanked for the destruction of property.
The not wearing of glasses, I’d ground her from reading for a period of time.
Seriously I wouldn’t let all of this build up, and if you’ve already punished her for each individual action, are you really going to repunish her for past actions she’s already paid for? Kinda sounds like Double Jeopardy to me.
Personally, I’d treat each act seperately as it happens. I don’t approve of the silent treatment as that gives the idea that love is conditional, is that really the message you want to send her?
You aren’t limited to grounding, time out, lecturing and yelling. Be creative. There are sentences and essays to be written, additional chores that can be done, serving as your shadow since she can’t be trusted on her own, etc. So many different ways you can make a point.
Edit: The homework thing: (we’ve had this same problem this past year. The agenda wasn’t cutting it, I couldn’t read his writing and had no clue what the shorthand meant anyway. I worked up a daily form in Excel, with a space for each class/subject and a couple of checkboxes for "has homework" "has no homework" and a few lines for additional comments, and a signature line for each class. That was it was crystal clear whether or not he had homework, each teacher signed it at the end of each class period.
If he "forgot" or "lost" the homework sheet, he was confined to his room for the rest of the night. This method worked alot better than the others I tried. so much so that end of last marking period he had 4 A’s and 4 B’s. much better than he’d been doing.
By the by, to answer your original question, "Is the type of grounding I have in mind child abuse?" No, it isn’t abuse, but I’ve never found it all that effective. I do better taking each "crime" and finding an appropriate punishment to match as they come. If I do long-term punishments, he easily gets overwhelmed and takes a negative "defeatist" attitude, of "Why bother? It won’t help."
I second the motion that you should apply a solid hairbrush to her bare bottom. Lying is one of the worst things a kid can do. Stop it now before she gets into high school where there will be a "whole new sets of rules" for you to deal with.
But to answer your question: No, this is not extreme or abusive.